Monday, June 29, 1981
The visionaries: Dear Gospa, are you happy to see so many people here today? “More than happy.” (She smiles, writes Vicka).
How long will you stay with us? “As long as you will want me to, my angels.”
What do you expect of the people who have come in spite of the brambles and the heat? “There is only one God, one faith. Let the people believe firmly and do not fear anything.”
What do you expect of us?
“That you have a solid faith and that you maintain confidence.”
Will we know how to endure persecutions, which will come to us because of you?
“You will be able to, my angels. Do not fear. You will be able to endure everything. You must believe and have confidence in me.”
Here Vicka writes a question from Dr. Darinka Glamuzina: May I touch Our Lady? She gives this response:
“There have always been Judas’, but she can approach.”
Here is a transcript of the testimony of Dr. Darinka Glamuzina, the doctor who examined the visionaries during the first week of the apparitions in June of 1981. This is the first time she has shared her experience. I will share her testimony in two parts, since it is quite long. Thanks to Judy Pellatt who transcribed the English translation!!
Talk by Doctor Darinka Glamuzina October 6th Yellow Hall, Medjugorje
Let us be together in the light of God. My name is Darinka and I was born in Ossic, Croatia in1956. Now you know how old I am (laughter). I was almost 23 years old when I came here as a doctor. I was a very good student and that first part of my life, I dedicated only to study and knowledge. I thought that I was very smart, but you will understand soon, and I will come back and share more about that time with you, that I was not smart at all.
I got married and I came here from another part of the former Yugoslavia. The area where I lived before was a more developed part of the country. So when I came here, I found it very primitive and not developed at all. I considered myself to be a very educated person and I worked in a clinic in Citluk as a GP doctor. In those hot summer days (June 1981), the driver of our ambulance (he lives here in Medjugorje) said during one coffee break that some children in Medjugorje saw Our Lady.Since I was a doctor and at that time was a profound deep agnostic (although my parents were Catholic), the fact that some children saw Our Lady was for me absurd, unbelievable and ridiculous.
I thought that this ‘thing’ should be stopped as soon as possible that this kind of mass hysteria should be stopped. That was my first impression to the news I got. My first meeting with the visionaries was when our ambulance driver brought them to our clinic from the psychiatric unit in Mostar. They brought them to us doctors in the clinic so that we could take a look at the results of the tests, and so that we could judge if they were normal or not.
Those children for me at that time were just that, children. Jakov was nearly 9 while Vicka was a teenage girl, very good looking. For me it was really a pleasure to be with them and have an opportunity to ask them some questions because they were children who supposedly saw Our Lady. Very soon I understood what their level of education was, about their daily routine and the problems they had at school or in the family. The children were giving very sincere and honest answers and they spoke about everything. Then I understood that they were true children, that they were children from a village, children of peasants and that they were very honest and sincere, very sincere. But still in my doctor’s mind, I thought that by asking them certain questions it would bring them into contradiction and that they wouldn’t be able to get out of it. That soon I would be able to understand that we are talking here about a kind of hypnosis or some other kind of manipulation or maybe a certain agreed lie because children can sometimes dot hat.
I asked them about the way they had seen Our Lady, what she looks like, what kind of language she was speaking, what kind of message is being given to them. Then I understood thatwe were not talking about something ordinary. But still in my mind I was very suspicious and skeptical. No question I posed to them brought them into the situation that they were confused. No. Their answers were not on the level of their education. Then I understood that their answers were surpassing the level of knowledge of children of that age and I became very curious.
The next most significant meeting with the visionaries took place on the 6th day of the apparitions, when the head of the clinic in Citluk asked me to go together with him to be present at the time of the apparition. It was part of our practice at that time as doctors to be present at events such as car accidents or to attend someone who had become very sick, but this was an exception. It was something crazy, extreme and challenging. I gave my consent and accompanied the head of the clinic to Medjugorje.
We arrived some two hours prior to climbing the hill, at Vicka’s house. Vicka, her parents, all the family and everyone was there in the house and they knew who we were. You have to understand a bit of the political situation at that time in Yugoslavia. Since I was a young new doctor at Citluk, I did not have a lot of political experience but I felt that my boss had certain obligations and tasks regarding that event. I asked him if he had any obligations to stop all of this and he said that we were there, we were a medical team, and we would just be quiet. We were not interested in anything else. We were just there to be present. Just to do what we had to do, aformality.
First, I was shocked to see so many people present in Medjugorje, in Vicka’s house and all around. That was the 6th day of the apparitions but I think that thousands of people were present in Medjugorje. Everything was full. I have to tell you and you need to know that I was a very ambitious explorer. I was not given by anyone a task to do something. But that spirit of an explorer, researcher made me think that I needed to be a good observer, to be a psychologist, so that I may have a license as a psychologist. That I may see all that is happening is truly insane and crazy. I thought that it was my duty as a doctor. I was carefully observing Vicka and all of the visionaries after that. What I noticed was that everyone in Vicka’s house was holding rosary beads and they were praying.
In one moment, Vicka just got up and, quick as the wind she moved and said “let’s go”. And there was no chance for anyone to stop her. So I thought maybe it’s good that I can go with her and see what happens. I was running after Vicka and then all of a sudden, from different sides and parts, the rest of the visionaries came to the place that you now know as the site of Our Lady’s first apparition. It was as if with a magic stick, that circle was empty. Thousands of people were sitting around them and then I saw that something was going to happen. That something would happen with the destiny of those children. I was still exploring and still skeptical. There was an ardent wish in me that this craziness had to be stopped, in a scientific way and in the way of medicine.
I was standing next to Vicka and the rest were in one line together. I asked Vicka if I might stand next to them. She said “yes, you can”. She was the most communicative among them and that’s why I decided to stand next to her so that I can get involved in those events and try and do something. You will see. I was shocked again when at one moment they all knelt down, in one single second and they started praying together. Praying, praying. And already at that moment I was surprised that ‘that something’ that was happening was happening in an extraordinary spiritual way. They were kneeling and praying. I had rosary beads in my hand because I was given them in Vicka’s house. At that time I didn’t know how to pray. I was looking at the visionaries, what will they do, where will their eyes be pointed and what will happen at that moment.
Later I understood that I was the odd one out, that I was false and they were true. But only later did I understand this. At that very moment, I thought that I was the righteous one and that they are not good, that ‘that something’ that is happening should stop. How interesting all that was. For me that prayer took a while so after that long prayer they all got up in one single second, all up again and I thought that all this surpasses what I have been thinking about. Because Vicka and all of them were saying ‘here she is, here she is’. I was of course shocked and shock is outside of human logic. I was still exploring and researching and I was still looking at them, what they were doing and they were all looking in one direction, at one point. Their faces were radiating with an inner light. I saw that their emotions were corresponding with what they were seeing.
They were looking at that ‘something’ and they were delighted and amazed and I could see that. They were delighted. And me among them, a skeptical doctor, a cynical doctor. Agnostic. I see that something is happening on their faces, something which is surpassing human logic. At that point I thought I knew about medicine and logic. That enthusiasm of the children spread around the people and that whole part of the hill was in an amazing silence, all of them were in a kind of state of beatitude and I was watching all that happening.After that I started exploring and researching,
I thought I have to get involved, I have to be part of this because I felt guilty that I was not part of it, whatever it was that was happening. So I asked Vicka if I could ask some questions to whatever or whoever they say they see. It was again a shock for me when Vicka says to me “I am going to ask Our Lady”. Do you understand the sensitivity of the communication? She didn’t say to me to go ahead and ask. She said “I am going to ask Our Lady”. So in that moment I understood that she is having a relationship with someone, with someone whom she respects. Then she said to me “Our Lady said you can ask”. So me still being a smart one, very smart one, I ask “who is she? ” Vicka is looking enough for me realize that she is waiting for an answer to come and that she is given the answer.
Vicka responds to me and says “Our Lady says that she is the Queen of Peace” That was a definition of a person who was coming here and I thought what kind of peace since we have peace. I did not understand. I remembered those words “I am the Queen of Peace” thousands of times when we were underground during the bombing and shelling of Citluk when thousands of missiles were falling on the city. How significant that was. The time has come for us not to have peace.
The second question I wanted to ask, and I said to Vicka to ask her why does she appear here? Why here in Bijakovici in Medjugorje? I asked this because for me this area was the poorest, most neglected area of the former Yugoslavia. I thought, thinking very logically that if God exists, then he is powerful, he is almighty. So it’s enough for a little bit of thunder, to come over the church of Notre Dame in Paris and we will all be able to hear it and we will know that God exists. So why is all this happening here in Medjugorje? Those were my thoughts at that moment, but listen to the answer. Vicka is looking at Our Lady, she turns to me and says “Our Lady said that she has come here because of the strong faith”. Good. So I continue asking questions.
I am sharing these moments of those conversations in detail just for you to understand that communication was established. There is a communication between me, Vicka and Our Lady. And that was so obvious. Still, me thinking about the problems of the world about how we can have peace in the world when there are so many religions and denominations, so I say this to Vicka and Vicka in her style says “Our Lady, this woman here is asking you how we can have peace in the world when there are so many religions?” I see that Vicka is waiting. The answer is coming. I said to Vicka “what did she say, what did she say?” She said that there is only one faith and one God.
So, I still not having enough, I continue. I thought that if they can see that ‘something, someone’ in front of them as a 3D person and I can’t that maybe I should try to touch it a little. Maybe I am going to feel something. So then I ask Vicka if I can touch Our Lady. Vicka asks “Can this woman touch you?” She is waiting for the answer to come and that ‘something’ says to Vicka “Yes, she can “and in that moment the whole world was turning around in my head. Point of no return. I can’t go back now. That’s what I said. I am given permission and I have to go ahead but I don’t see where to touch. So Vicka is pointing to me “here, here, here”. Still there is skepticism in me, less of it however but it’s still there.
I came and knelt down and I tried to touch with a desire to feel something and in that moment, I became aware that that ‘something’ is not there anymore. I feel that that ‘something’ has gone, left, but with none of the senses we have could I explain what happened.
I turn to Vicka and I asked her “Vicka is she gone”? And Vicka said “yes she’s gone”. I returned to my place and I saw that the visionaries were very sad, maybe even a bit scared. So I said what did Our Lady say? And then Vicka said “yes, she said something, she said something”. I asked what she said. She said there were always the unfaithful, the Judas. Can you imagine? In that moment of truth, in a second I understood that that ‘something’ was defending the visionaries from myself. That something knows that I wanted to discover everything as a lie. That something is defending the children from me, a traitor. I was devastated.
As much as I was devastated by the truth, somewhere deep inside of me happiness started flourishing, because I could see the truth which is for me far more valid and of greater value than just a rebuke. From that experience I went down completely transformed. I know all women will know this well, we women feel our body well, I knew that something had happened. Something happened with me and that I will never ever be the same person again. I came home and I took the rosary – all night long I couldn’t fall asleep, all night long I was praying ‘forgive me, forgive me, have mercy on me’ all night long. Me who did not even know how to hold the rosary beads in my hand. After my experience there was a kind of chain around the visionaries and to come close to them was very difficult. But for me, I simply didn’t need anything else. I was completely transformed. I went up the hill as one person and came down a completely different one. I even thought that I might have some changes in my body. I was looking at my hands. (To be continued tomorrow)
In Jesus, Mary and Joseph!